A bad look gets worse
Dec. 16th, 2021 04:38 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
mx_rumpleteazerOK, I wasn't going to say anything about this until after the holidays, I don't want to be the Grinch 馃槀 but I'd also planned on writing a long, well-constructed essay and truthfully the chances of me having the brainpower to do that are going to be less as my pregnancy wears on, so let me get right down to it.
You might have noticed I have a little problem with Spiced Wine. This started years before Spiced Wine began bullying Verhalen, though that was the reason why I finally made an A03 account, to offer Verhalen my support.
My problem with Spiced Wine started when I tried to read her Dark Prince series a few years ago. Vanim贸r毛 is regularly described as pale, along with the other Elves, and there's even fanart depicting them as unnaturally, inhumanly white-skinned. But that's not the problem I have. Vanim贸r毛 goes on to conquer the Harad. The citizens of the Harad are depicted in Spiced Wine's work as engaging in barbaric practices, especially mistreatment of women. Just from a summary blurb, you can see this attitude expressed. (screenshot taken November 2021) I'm not screenshotting her entire fic to try to prove it beyond this, but it's there. Vanim贸r毛 introduces laws to curb the inhumane practices that the people have been engaging in.
The citizens of the Harad, in her fic, are depicted with dark skin, and their culture is written as strongly resembling Arabic culture.
In a nutshell: Vanim贸r毛, white-skinned, conquers a land full of dark-skinned people, the barbarism they engage in reads like a stereotype of what white people think all Muslims do, particularly with regards to women, and White God-Emperor makes them stop.
To say this is "problematic" is an understatement.
"But the Harad is a fictional place!"
1. In Spiced and Narya's multiverse, Middle-Earth, which includes the Harad, is our Earth. (Exhibit A - Exhibit B - Exhibit C)
2. It is pretty much taken as a given in the fandom that the Harad is based on the Middle-East and Africa. (Here's one thread on Reddit I found about it. question - answer)
3. The UK, where Spiced is from, has an Islamophobia problem just as bad as the United States, if not worse. Just Google "Islamophobia UK" and you'll see what I mean. It's not unique to UKIP/BNP/Brexit Party supporters either, there's a number of white liberals in the UK who have regressive attitudes about Islam and Muslims, in the name of "feminism", because as we all know, no Muslim country has ever had a female head of state.
I won't deny that the Taliban, ISIL, Boko Haram and other groups treat women horribly, but to say all Muslims are like that is just flat-out racist bullshit.
There are plenty of other problems I have with Spiced's work, like her treatment of women (Indis and H茅lo茂se have been the exception but only in recent months, and only after there were some comments here on my journal about how she treats women in her fic), but the disguised Islamophobia is the most upsetting to me personally, as a Muslim.
"But there are characters of color presented in a positive way in Spiced and Narya's multiverse!"
Off the top of my head I can think of exactly two: Martha, who is Black and works for Howard, and Luc, who's only 1/4 Black (Senegalese, French and Basque). Martha doesn't get much screen time, and Spiced writes Luc without a personality. To be perfectly blunt about it, Luc always came off like the token Black character in Narya's fic, there more for "representation" than anything else.
On the note of representation, here's a comment Spiced makes to one of her fans about how she doesn't do that, complete with a little wink that comes off as passive-aggressively mocking those who do write representation.
(The timing of this is interesting to me, as Verhalen had recently been writing Anthony as FTM and posting art with Anthony and S枚ren transitioning, and had mentioned that as a trans man, he felt there should be more trans representation in fic.)
In recent developments, Spiced Wine has let Ann Ellspeth Raven borrow Vanim贸r毛 for At The Edge of Las'glen, the longest fanfic in existence. Vanim贸r毛 was introduced in chapter 305, not by name, though AER confirms it's him in a comment thread. What's Vanim贸r毛 doing in this fic? When he's introduced, he's running a plantation in Costa Rica, a Caribbean country. And his employees make a joke about monkeys.
(full text - relevant portion)
From a comment thread on my journal:
Even if that joke was intended as innocent and about actual Costa Rican monkeys, it reads less innocent in the context of a character who is constantly described as pale, and has tons of fanart depicting him as such, who conquered a land of dark-skinned people and made them stop engaging in practices people assume all Muslims do, who in this fic owns a plantation in a Caribbean country.
What makes this more disturbing to me is that within the last year (and only after George Floyd and the BLM protests, not before), Silmarillion Writers Guild has asserted its allyship and wanting to make Tolkien fandom a safe space for people of color like myself.
Unfortunately, Spiced Wine is also a member of Silmarillion Writers Guild, as are fans who coddle and encourage her behavior and see nothing wrong with it. I don't write fanfic. Part of why I don't is time constraints and not having enough brainpower for it when I'm off work, but part of why I don't is because I wouldn't feel safe writing for Silmarillion fandom. And I wouldn't feel safe joining Silmarillion Writers Guild so long as this continues to be part of SWG's culture, paying lip service to anti-racism and then having someone in their membership who writes things that look racist, and her most vocal fans are active contributing members.
I don't want to say that Spiced Wine, or AER, are racist. Spiced claims to be a socialist and to hate Brexit. I'm sure that in Spiced's mind, she doesn't think of herself as racist. A lot of white liberals don't think they're racist, while saying or doing racist things. That's the nature of racism. It's not all nooses and bricks through windows and slurs. It's little things like this, which are called "microaggressions" in social justice discourse.
It's hard for me to say what should be done about this, but at the very least I feel both Spiced Wine and the Silmarillion Writers Guild owe an apology to people of color in the fandom. Unfortunately, I not only see that as not happening, but I'm sure that this post, if anyone outside my group of friends sees it, is going to be called "bullying", even though I'm simply making a statement here in my own journal and I'm not leaving comments to her on A03 or harassing her on social media (I don't even have a Tumblr), and I'm not making ad hominem attacks, I'm only bringing up what's on the public Internet for everyone to see, complete with screenshots. It is all too often the case that when a person of color tells a white person "that thing you said/did was kind of racist", the white person doubles down and screams "I'M NOT RACIST! You're bullying me! Your tone is aggressive!" It would be nice if an apology was made, but it probably won't be.
At the very least if there are any Tolkien fans of color potentially interested in reading Spiced's work, there is now a public record to help them make an informed decision.
Also, my comments are only ever set to access because I don't feel like getting into arguments with random people and I've seen from other anti-racist discourse in fandom over the years that it will always, always go badly, so my not opening comments to the public for discussion is not "bad faith", it's to prevent bad faith actors from coming over here and starting drama.
You might have noticed I have a little problem with Spiced Wine. This started years before Spiced Wine began bullying Verhalen, though that was the reason why I finally made an A03 account, to offer Verhalen my support.
My problem with Spiced Wine started when I tried to read her Dark Prince series a few years ago. Vanim贸r毛 is regularly described as pale, along with the other Elves, and there's even fanart depicting them as unnaturally, inhumanly white-skinned. But that's not the problem I have. Vanim贸r毛 goes on to conquer the Harad. The citizens of the Harad are depicted in Spiced Wine's work as engaging in barbaric practices, especially mistreatment of women. Just from a summary blurb, you can see this attitude expressed. (screenshot taken November 2021) I'm not screenshotting her entire fic to try to prove it beyond this, but it's there. Vanim贸r毛 introduces laws to curb the inhumane practices that the people have been engaging in.
The citizens of the Harad, in her fic, are depicted with dark skin, and their culture is written as strongly resembling Arabic culture.
In a nutshell: Vanim贸r毛, white-skinned, conquers a land full of dark-skinned people, the barbarism they engage in reads like a stereotype of what white people think all Muslims do, particularly with regards to women, and White God-Emperor makes them stop.
To say this is "problematic" is an understatement.
"But the Harad is a fictional place!"
1. In Spiced and Narya's multiverse, Middle-Earth, which includes the Harad, is our Earth. (Exhibit A - Exhibit B - Exhibit C)
2. It is pretty much taken as a given in the fandom that the Harad is based on the Middle-East and Africa. (Here's one thread on Reddit I found about it. question - answer)
3. The UK, where Spiced is from, has an Islamophobia problem just as bad as the United States, if not worse. Just Google "Islamophobia UK" and you'll see what I mean. It's not unique to UKIP/BNP/Brexit Party supporters either, there's a number of white liberals in the UK who have regressive attitudes about Islam and Muslims, in the name of "feminism", because as we all know, no Muslim country has ever had a female head of state.
I won't deny that the Taliban, ISIL, Boko Haram and other groups treat women horribly, but to say all Muslims are like that is just flat-out racist bullshit.
There are plenty of other problems I have with Spiced's work, like her treatment of women (Indis and H茅lo茂se have been the exception but only in recent months, and only after there were some comments here on my journal about how she treats women in her fic), but the disguised Islamophobia is the most upsetting to me personally, as a Muslim.
"But there are characters of color presented in a positive way in Spiced and Narya's multiverse!"
Off the top of my head I can think of exactly two: Martha, who is Black and works for Howard, and Luc, who's only 1/4 Black (Senegalese, French and Basque). Martha doesn't get much screen time, and Spiced writes Luc without a personality. To be perfectly blunt about it, Luc always came off like the token Black character in Narya's fic, there more for "representation" than anything else.
On the note of representation, here's a comment Spiced makes to one of her fans about how she doesn't do that, complete with a little wink that comes off as passive-aggressively mocking those who do write representation.
(The timing of this is interesting to me, as Verhalen had recently been writing Anthony as FTM and posting art with Anthony and S枚ren transitioning, and had mentioned that as a trans man, he felt there should be more trans representation in fic.)
In recent developments, Spiced Wine has let Ann Ellspeth Raven borrow Vanim贸r毛 for At The Edge of Las'glen, the longest fanfic in existence. Vanim贸r毛 was introduced in chapter 305, not by name, though AER confirms it's him in a comment thread. What's Vanim贸r毛 doing in this fic? When he's introduced, he's running a plantation in Costa Rica, a Caribbean country. And his employees make a joke about monkeys.
(full text - relevant portion)
From a comment thread on my journal:
Me: I found the "monkeys" joke a bit tone-deaf. I want to believe in good faith she genuinely meant the wild monkeys on the island, but considering Pale Whitey is a plantation owner and these guys are speaking patois, making a joke about "monkeys" is cringe.
Even if that joke was intended as innocent and about actual Costa Rican monkeys, it reads less innocent in the context of a character who is constantly described as pale, and has tons of fanart depicting him as such, who conquered a land of dark-skinned people and made them stop engaging in practices people assume all Muslims do, who in this fic owns a plantation in a Caribbean country.
What makes this more disturbing to me is that within the last year (and only after George Floyd and the BLM protests, not before), Silmarillion Writers Guild has asserted its allyship and wanting to make Tolkien fandom a safe space for people of color like myself.
Unfortunately, Spiced Wine is also a member of Silmarillion Writers Guild, as are fans who coddle and encourage her behavior and see nothing wrong with it. I don't write fanfic. Part of why I don't is time constraints and not having enough brainpower for it when I'm off work, but part of why I don't is because I wouldn't feel safe writing for Silmarillion fandom. And I wouldn't feel safe joining Silmarillion Writers Guild so long as this continues to be part of SWG's culture, paying lip service to anti-racism and then having someone in their membership who writes things that look racist, and her most vocal fans are active contributing members.
I don't want to say that Spiced Wine, or AER, are racist. Spiced claims to be a socialist and to hate Brexit. I'm sure that in Spiced's mind, she doesn't think of herself as racist. A lot of white liberals don't think they're racist, while saying or doing racist things. That's the nature of racism. It's not all nooses and bricks through windows and slurs. It's little things like this, which are called "microaggressions" in social justice discourse.
It's hard for me to say what should be done about this, but at the very least I feel both Spiced Wine and the Silmarillion Writers Guild owe an apology to people of color in the fandom. Unfortunately, I not only see that as not happening, but I'm sure that this post, if anyone outside my group of friends sees it, is going to be called "bullying", even though I'm simply making a statement here in my own journal and I'm not leaving comments to her on A03 or harassing her on social media (I don't even have a Tumblr), and I'm not making ad hominem attacks, I'm only bringing up what's on the public Internet for everyone to see, complete with screenshots. It is all too often the case that when a person of color tells a white person "that thing you said/did was kind of racist", the white person doubles down and screams "I'M NOT RACIST! You're bullying me! Your tone is aggressive!" It would be nice if an apology was made, but it probably won't be.
At the very least if there are any Tolkien fans of color potentially interested in reading Spiced's work, there is now a public record to help them make an informed decision.
Also, my comments are only ever set to access because I don't feel like getting into arguments with random people and I've seen from other anti-racist discourse in fandom over the years that it will always, always go badly, so my not opening comments to the public for discussion is not "bad faith", it's to prevent bad faith actors from coming over here and starting drama.
no subject
Date: 2021-12-16 10:21 pm (UTC)I will not tell BIPOCs how to feel about seeing all of this, that isn't my place as a white ally. I will strongly suggest to anyone reading this, to not leave threatening or other comments that can be construed as harassment on A03, Tumblr or elsewhere, because Spiced thrives on attention, especially negative attention, and enjoys painting a narrative of herself as a victim of bullying. Angry comments won't make her apologise, they'll only make her claim we're "ganging up on her".
However, this needed to be said and if you don't think this was a long and well-constructed essay I'm a little afraid of what you consider to be long and well-constructed.
no subject
Date: 2021-12-16 10:33 pm (UTC)^This, but also Spiced will claim it's me. Because nobody in Tolkien fandom could possibly see this shit and go "nope", it's all me, like I have infinite shitloads of time to go trolling. (I also don't use social media because it's a toxic cesspool of wank, and I have better things to do like write a three-million-word multiverse.) So, if anyone does get the urge to yell at her on A03 or Tumblr or wherever, I would suggest strongly to not do so, it's just going to look like I'm doing it or "inciting" others to do it. Writing about it on your space, or asking SWG calmly why they're letting this shit fly, is one thing, but dogpiling someone is going to backfire.
As it is, I'm sure Spiced will accuse
no subject
Date: 2021-12-16 10:51 pm (UTC)You know it's projection though.
no subject
Date: 2021-12-17 01:56 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-12-17 03:57 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-12-16 10:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-12-18 12:00 am (UTC)so i don't fuck with spiced wine. i tried to read her fic before shit happened and i already thought it was gross how much she brings up how pale everyone is and everything is all about wealth and glamour now when people can't pay their fucking rent, but she's like jk rowling levels of gross without the terf shit and even that's debatable, i don't think she would have come at verhalen as hard if verhalen was a cis woman instead of a trans dude
best thing is just not to give spiced comments, because comments means giving her hits and she thinks that's publicity
no subject
Date: 2021-12-16 10:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-12-16 10:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-12-17 04:08 am (UTC)It's really not that hard. The thing is I didn't even set out like "I'm gonna write an Australian Aboriginal character and I'm gonna write a Korean-American character," they just crashed into my head like that.
no subject
Date: 2021-12-16 10:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-12-16 10:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-12-16 11:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-12-17 01:54 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-12-17 11:53 pm (UTC)